The transcript:
I always give you a hard time because I probably have to say you’re the sweetest person I think I’ve ever met in the construction industry. So do people take advantage of that with you? Or, you know, how do you, how do you really stand your ground when you need to?
Welcome to Just a Girl in Construction. This is the podcast for hardworking construction workers who want to drop the tool belt and build the skills to move into a management position. If you’re an on-site construction worker seeking a management position, then this podcast is for you.
My guest today is Jenny Williams with WDS Contracting. This little spitfire is going to show us how to be sweet and strong to be successful in construction. Her and her husband, Matt, own a successful earthwork company in Oklahoma, and today we’re going to be talking about being the support system in a construction company.
Hi, Jenny. Thank you so much for being here today. How are you doing?
I’m great. How are you, Cory?
I’m doing very good. So it’s always nice to have women here in the construction space, but I’m super excited because you’re also a very good friend. So I’m glad to have you here, and it should be a great conversation for us to be able to talk about a lot of things today. I’m excited for you to be here with us today and talk to us a little bit about WDS Contracting.
Thank you, Kori. I’m super excited to be here. So we haven’t always been WDS Contracting. We actually started about 20 years ago as Williams Dirt Service. Matt, my husband, came home one day and just said, hey, I think we could start our own business. And so he would handle the field side. I would handle the office side. And then we were an earthwork contractor for, like I said, about 20 years. And then just recently, we transitioned over to construction management services. And so to have our name illustrate kind of that we’ve expanded our services, we transitioned into WDS Contracting.
So that’s fantastic, because that really does show the opportunity for evolution of a company. And so starting off as Williams Dirt, you guys did a lot of earthwork. And so now you’re expanding into a lot of different areas. I know you work in Oklahoma, and so now you’re doing construction management and the dirt work portion.
But you brought up something that I really want to talk about today. And that is this opportunity of a partnership when it’s also a marriage. And trying to go into this space where your husband comes home and says that he has this great dream and idea to start a business. And then automatically, you become a bookkeeper and person who sends out invoices and takes care of payroll. Is that something that you had prepared yourself to do? Did you go to school to do any of that?
Not really, Cory. So my path to construction management probably looked a little different than a lot of people’s. I’d actually tried to get in nursing school twice and failed twice. And so then I kind of had to hit the reset button. And it’s like, okay, well, there was an immediate need for help in the office with Matt. And so there was a need. And then there was something I grew into.
And it started off pretty minor, is kind of like what you said, is just kind of managing the books a little bit, sending it out an invoice here and there, collecting checks. And then it was something that grew into, okay, now I’m typing up proposals. And then, hey, what’s this earthwork takeoff software about? And learning how to do the earthwork takeoff software, which for me was pretty fun because there’s kind of an artistic aspect to it. You’re elevating this 2D set of plans into a 3D model. And so you’re actually getting to see it come to life. And so you’re creating that. And so for me, that was pretty fun.
And then from there, it transitioned to, okay, so now I know how to do these takeoffs.I have my dirt work quantities. Now let’s start estimating. And so I started doing the estimating, and then started going to the pre-bid meeting, then started submitting proposals, and then from there, it’s just kind of, it’s taken off. That is fantastic. And you know, that’s so exciting, because I really do see contract administration as a great stepping stone for women to be able to get into the industry and just have a general experience of all the different terminology and all of the different things that we do in the office. And it gives you that familiarity then to then move into a pathway that suits you. Yours was estimating, and so there’s other opportunities for contract administration or being able to go into scheduling or construction management. How exciting to be able to, I don’t know, talk at the dinner table about a good proposal that went in. Yeah, that’s always fun.
And that’s kind of another thing that I think me and Matt share that’s maybe a little different than a lot of other companies, where there’s sometimes a disconnect between the office and the field. And so, like you said, we are literally sitting at the dinner table, and he’s telling me, hey, you were off on your quantity, or hey, our production was more than what we thought it was going to be. And so we’re able to make those adjustments in real time based on those conversations that we’re having every single day.
And you tell him that it’s really not your quantities off, his efficiency just needs to step up, right? Well, I mean, this is part of the thing that can be difficult when you move from a marriage partnership into a business partnership. And I know my husband, he’s a demolition contractor. And when we first started dating, his company was in a lot of trouble. And I went in and did similar to what you did and did all the bookkeeping and got everything organized. But I soon found that our strong personalities probably weren’t going to be a fit for us being partners in our work relationship.
But a lot of smaller companies start off this way, where a wife might be handed those office duties, and trying to keep the family and the business and everything going, they just accept it, even though it might not be in their genius zone, or their place where they’re most comfortable, or feeling successful in their own right, where I know that you’ve just taken this company and grown it into something really, really special.
And so you’ve definitely found your genius zone. Thank you. I like to solve problems. I like to try to figure out solutions. I love being around people. And so I think that’s kind of what has helped us is I just, you know, I maybe didn’t know anything about construction starting out, but I got to be friends with someone who did and then I learned how to do it. And so that’s something I think that’s kind of stood out for us is, you know, maybe initially, I didn’t know what to do, but just kind of knowing within myself, hey, I may not know how to do it, but I’ll figure it out. Or I’ll find somebody that can help me figure out. Luckily, I found you, Cory.
Yes. Well, I know that building that confidence sometimes is hard when you’re just in a solo bubble all yourself, you know. So like when you’re just working on proposals and estimates and you’re working on a job site and a lot of times the work overwhelms us, so we don’t have an opportunity to reach out beyond ourselves and find that personal growth investment.
And so I am grateful to have known you as one of my students in the Construction Management Essentials program. And after you took that program is when you were able to do your company evolution and grow into construction management. And so talk to us a little bit about what that has done to change you and your opportunities.
Oh, my gosh. So even this morning, I was just sitting here kind of reflecting back on the past year and a half. And I can honestly say this, it’s changed the whole trajectory of our business. You know, initially, like I said, we started off just doing the earthwork. We were always the sub. And then, you know, coming up with these construction management opportunities, you know, and then just through LinkedIn, finding you, asking everyone for recommendations like, hey, who has good construction management courses? And then finding you and then doing your challenge, your five day challenge was really fun. It was like, OK, so that’s what gave me the confidence to say, OK, I havesome help here. And then you kind of helping me along the way, you know, with the challenges that came up, knowing I had a support system around me was what really helped. It’s no fun doing any of this by ourselves, right? the thing that we really found out is that you really knew more than you thought you did or had confidence in yourself doing, but it was just being able to have someone else see it and be able to show that to you in order for you guys to be able to take that and really move forward.
Mm-hmm. Yes. Yeah, that’s exactly what it was. So fantastic. Now, what would you give, what kind of advice would you give to other young women who are thinking about starting in this dirty, grungy, you know, man-filled industry that we talk about?
I would say do it. I would say you’re always going to feel like you’re not prepared. You’re always going to feel scared to do it, but do it scared. Go ahead and start now. And I think that’s the best advice. That’s something I wish I would have done a long time ago. Don’t wait till you feel like you’re ready because you’ll never be ready. Just go ahead and start now.
Yeah. And these guys are good guys, right? They are. Everyone is extremely respectful. Everyone is extremely helpful. And my experience has been very positive. So yeah, I would say don’t let that stop you.
Well, so positive, in fact, that don’t you have a young man who also works for your company?
Yes, our 17-year-old son has come to work for us. And so that’s been really neat getting to watch him come along and watching him kind of absorb all this information and, you know, get to work side by side with his dad and I. It’s been very rewarding.
I can’t imagine. It’s almost like putting, you know, your own succession plan in place and just making sure that you have enough children to be able to run everything when you want your legacy to come forth, right?
Yeah. Yep. Yeah. And how proud, how incredibly beautiful to be able to have Matt looking down and seeing his son doing grade setting and working on everything that he did when he was a young man. And so it’s just a really, really nice reward for your entire family.
Right. It’s really neat. Again, those dinner table conversations, you know, talking about whatever challenges came up that day and how they overcome them and watching Mason, my 17-year-old kind of say, you know, hey, I, you know, I was struggling a little bit, but we figured it out. So that’s really neat.
So tell me what really helped you get through learning about construction by not knowing. So I know that you said that you leaned on the experience of others and having mentors is always really important when we’re working through these construction projects. But did you start really understanding the processes and systems involved in construction as you started developing your estimates and you’re able to really better see that order of precedence and how you want to set up a project in order to be able to get through it and then just kind of fill in the blanks with that construction experience?
For me, it was, you know, you can, you can read the book or you could take the course, but it’s not actually until I got in the middle of it is when I really started to learn and then pulling from those previous experiences of, you know, okay, well, this is what this book said, or this is what this person said. But for me, really learning it came when I was in the middle of it. And then sometimes learning things the hard way. But yeah, getting in the middle of it, it was really, you know, what stuck in my head.
So this reminds me of a conversation that we had, because you had a change order that came up on one of your projects when we were working in the construction management essentials cohort. And it was interesting because there was an opportunity to be able to hear different perspectives about how to approach something. And so how is strategizing or talking about things like that able to really open up your understanding and interpretation of how you want to move forward with something?
Now, I think it’s really important to be able to see things from other people’s perspective. And sometimes it takes sitting down and talking with somebody else to kind of open that door that, hey, there might be another way to look at this. And, you know, I might be seeing a six, you’re seeing a nine, neither one of us is wrong, we’re just seeing it different ways. And so if I can put myself in that other person’s shoes, and then walk them back to, you know, hey, well, take a look at it this way, maybe. And then the light bulb goes on and they’re like, oh. We’ll take you’ll take a look at it this way maybe and then the light bulb goes on and they’re like, okay No, we are on the same page. Okay, we figured it out. It’s not a fight anymore them and so yeah that exact change order that I called you about was the similar situation and They were seeing it from their perspective I was seeing it from my perspective and we just had to walk each other to the middle and figure it out together.
I always give you a hard time because I probably have to say you’re the sweetest person I think I’ve ever met in the construction industry. So do people take advantage of that with you or you know? How do you how do you really stand your ground when you need to? So? Honestly, I don’t feel like there’s been a lot of people that have taken advantage of it. I think if anything it kind of works the opposite way that it’s kind of almost a breath of fresh air because a lot of people in this industry are very hardened very callous very type-a. You know my way or the highway and so when someone comes at them and it’s like hey, I just you know How is your day going today? Would you mind taking a look at this for me and just kind of having a different tone? And it seems like it kind of gets people to want to help you more that hey This person isn’t just trying to get something from me. They really care about me. And so that’s right That’s where I come from is because I really do care and I want to present that in a way that they know I’m genuine about it.
Yeah. No, that is fantastic. What about working with other women like sometimes it can’t feel for me anyways a little bit clicky. Reminds me sometimes of high school especially when I’m in the office when I’m out on the job site, maybe not so much. But do you are you presented with that ever and how do you approach that? Not a whole lot. Um, I’m pretty much in the office alone most of the time and so I don’t see a lot of that office cattiness or the you know, The water tank gossip and all that. I don’t really see that. I will say that the woman that are in the field with me that I see like You know, we’ve got project managers that I know of Catherine’s a good example of that and then Tammy a chief estimator from another company here in Oklahoma. They’re probably the most genuine people I’ve ever seen. They’re the most hard-working people I’ve ever seen and they are willing to help support in any way and so for me and seeing that kind of different breed of woman is very inspiring because it’s you know, they come from a place of support and They want to help you rise with them, you know, and so there’s there’s no cattiness it’s just hey, we’re all in this together and We’re gonna stick together and we’re gonna rock it.
That is fantastic and you know, we always talk about men and their brotherhood. But when you’re able to find a sisterhood like that it is pretty impressive and amazing and I know both of those ladies and the three of you have just been Tearing it up in Oklahoma. So super excited about all of the success that you’re having there. And what do you see for the future? What do you see? WDS doing as far as expansion or other Projects that you’re working on? So yeah, I’m in a place now that I Don’t want to ever go back to where we were just because I’ve seen how great it can be here in this place and so I would say just continuing on the same path that we’re on now and then like you touched on watching our sons come up Through the ranks and watching them excel at this. I think that would be my dream come true. But yeah, just continuing on and we had a crazy amount of growth from last year to this year, so I think maybe just kind of taking a second to catch our breath and Catching up a little bit and would be nice. But yeah, if we could keep going the way we’re going that would be Amazing and things ebb and flow, right? So sometimes things go up and down and sometimes it’s dependent on federal money that’s being released Sometimes it’s dependent on the type of weather that’s happening in the region that we’re located but when you’re looking at That growth and how that happens and when you grow so fast How do you really? Create the employee atmosphere necessary to get the right employees in place so that you can keep having that small company feel but being able to Expand into a larger enterprise. So that’s a great question I feel like for us the formula has been bringing people in that have the shared mindset of. Formula has been bringing people in that have the shared mindset of we’re in this together, we’re a team, we’re a family. And so we have a very small tight group.
And so for us, we like to kind of tease that we’re a small company that acts like a big one. And so I feel like with our group we have half the crew but we can do twice the work with the equipment and technology that we have.
And so just keeping everyone really tight-knit and then just making sure we have the shared values of, you know, we’re gonna do it the right way the first time.
So you brought something up that I want to talk about and.
